Podcast: From Mail Order to Marketing Mastery

Last Updated on October 23, 2024 by Michael Moshkovich

Transcription:

Michael: “All right, let’s dive into a true marketing classic. Yeah. Claude Hopkins scientific advertising.”

Ayelet: “Oh, yeah.”

Michael: “Good one. You really want to get to the core of this fast, right?”

Ayelet: Absolutely.

Michael: “That’s what we’re doing here. Yeah, we’re talking about a book from 1923. Wow. That is foundational to marketing. I mean, huge names like David Ogilvy were influenced by this. Oh, yeah. So we’re going on a mission here to unearth those timeless insights, right? Right. Stuff that’s still relevant in today’s, you know, crazy world of marketing.”

Ayelet: “What I think is really interesting about it is that it’s not just presenting ideas, it’s laying out a framework for approaching advertising with a scientific mindset. Yeah, it’s not about artistry for artistry sake. It’s about getting real, measurable results.”

Michael: “Okay, so let’s unpack Hopkins core argument. Advertising is salesmanship in print. I love that because it cuts through all the fluff and gets right to the heart of it. Right. Yeah. We are here to make sales.”

Ayelet: Absolutely. Any challenges you to picture this. Your ad is a salesman speaking to a single customer okay. Would that change your approach. Think about how a skilled salesperson interacts right. They build rapport. Yeah. They listen to needs. They present solutions.

Michael: “That’s a brilliant shift in perspective. Instead of just shouting about our product, we need to think about having a genuine conversation with our audience.”

Ayelet: “Exactly. Yeah. It encourages you to craft ad copy that speaks directly to the customer’s needs and desires. Just like a salesperson would in person, right?”

Michael: Right.

Ayelet: “Hopkins then goes on to lay out some key principles for scientific advertising. Okay. And you’ll be surprised how relevant they still are today, I’m sure. For instance, he talks a lot about the importance of offering service.”

Michael: Offering service.

Ayelet: “Now, what does that even mean in the context of advertising?”

Michael: “Yeah, that sounds a bit counterintuitive, right? Yeah. Shouldn’t we be focused on promoting our product?”

Ayelet: “He’s emphasizing that your ad should highlight the service or benefit your product provides to the consumer, not just tell them to buy it. It’s about solving their problems or fulfilling their needs, not simply pushing a product.”

Michael: “So it’s more about them, not about us.”

Ayelet: “Precisely. Okay. And Hopkins offers a great example. Think of a brush maker who wanted to increase sales instead of just advertising brushes. They gave away free brushes. No. Wow. That initial act of service built trust and created a relationship, which ultimately led to more sales down the line.”

Michael: “That makes you think about how you can offer a similar service to your audience, even if you’re not selling a physical product. Okay, maybe it’s valuable content, or a free trial, or even just helpful advice related to your industry.”

Ayelet: “Exactly. It’s about giving before you ask, right? Demonstrating value and building trust. Yeah. Another fascinating area Hopkins dives into is mail order advertising.”

Michael: “Oh, okay.”

Ayelet: “He considered it the gold standard for effectiveness because with mail order, results were directly measurable.”

Michael: That’s a great point. You could actually track how many people responded to a specific ad and made a purchase.

Ayelet: Exactly. Yeah. And this is where we can glean some valuable insights for today’s marketing.

Michael: Okay.

Ayelet: “Mail order ads had to be incredibly efficient, right? Think about it. They used small type, effectively avoided wasted space, focused on strong headlines. Yes. And told a complete persuasive story in a concise way.”

Michael: I’m following.

Ayelet: You. They even employed compelling visuals to capture attention.

Michael: “It’s like a masterclass in conciseness and clarity. And when you think about it, those same principles apply to so much of today’s marketing. Oh yeah, the best social media ads, for example, often follow those same guidMichael:nes. A strong headline striking visuals, and a clear call to action all packed into a small space. Yeah, it’s about meeting every word and every pixel count.”

Ayelet: You hit the nail on the head. Yeah. And this is where Hopkins emphasizes the power of specificity. Okay. He advocated for using specific claims and figures instead of vague generalities. Got it. Think about the difference between saying softens beard in one minute versus simply softens the.

Michael: Beard in one minute.

Ayelet: “The specific claim is far more impactful. UnbMichael:evable, right?”

Michael: It paints a clear picture and offers a tangible benefit that people can grasp immediately.

Ayelet: “Exactly. Yeah. And this ties back to consumer psychology. Okay. Hopkins understood that people are driven by emotions and perceptions, not just logic. Okay?”

Michael: This is where it gets really interesting. He was ahead of his time in understanding how psychology plays a role in marketing.

Ayelet: “One fascinating example he shares is about a department store that drew crowds simply by showcasing a $1,000 hat. Well, it’s the high price. Rather than deterring people actually increased the perceived value and desirability of the hat.”

Michael: “It’s counterintuitive, but it makes sense when you consider how our brains work. We often associate a higher price with higher quality or exclusivity.”

Ayelet: “Right? Yeah. This is what psychologists call anchoring bias. Yeah. Where we fixate on an initial piece of information, in this case, the high price. Right. And use it as a reference point for making judgments. Hopkins also understood the power of limited time offers and the concept of scarcity.”

Michael: “It’s like that fear of missing out, or FOMO, as we call it today.”

Ayelet: “Creating a sense of urgency or exclusivity can be incredibly effective in motivating people to act. Yeah, and of course, this is still a widely used tactic in marketing today.”

Michael: We see it everywhere from flash sales to limited edition products.

Ayelet: Another psychological principle Hopkins advocated for was the use of trials and guarantees. Offering a risk free trial or a strong guarantee demonstrates confidence in your product and reduces the perceived risk for the consumer.

Michael: “It’s a classic way to overcome hesitation and nudge people towards a purchase. We’ve covered a lot of ground already right? Salesmanship, service, psychology all in the first few chapters.”

Ayelet: “And we’re just getting started. What’s fascinating is how Hopkins brings all of these principles together to create a cohesive approach to advertise. Okay, that’s both scientific and creative.”

Michael: “Stay tuned, because in the next part of our deep dive, we’re going to explore one of the most crucial aspects of Hopkins approach. Yeah, the power of testing.”

Ayelet: “All right. So we’re going to uncover one of the most important aspects of Hopkins scientific advertising okay. The power of testing who testing. It wasn’t just throwing ideas out there, right. He wanted to know what actually worked.”

Michael: I love that data driven approach. It takes the guesswork out of advertising.

Ayelet: Absolutely.

Michael: “So how do they even run these test campaigns back then? Well, I mean, no fancy software or algorithms, right?”

Ayelet: “They had to be a lot more resourceful, right? Imagine running different versions of an ad in different cities or publications. Okay. And then carefully tracking responses using coupons or coded offers. Okay. So this allowed them to compare results, right. Figure out the most effective approaches okay. And even calculate the cost per customer for each campaign.”

Michael: It’s fascinating to think about the level of meticulousness involved. Oh yeah. They were essentially pioneers of data analysis and marketing.

Ayelet: Totally.

Michael: Do you have any favorite examples of those early test campaigns?

Ayelet: “Yeah, there’s one that stands out. A food advertiser was testing new forms of his product by using coupons to encourage trial and gather feedback. Right. He could refine his offerings based on real consumer responses.”

Michael: Interesting.

Ayelet: “He wasn’t guessing. Yeah, he was letting the data guide his decisions.”

Michael: It’s like real time market research in action.

Ayelet: Exactly.

Michael: It just shows the power of getting direct feedback from your target audience for sure. Any other cool examples?

Ayelet: Yeah. Hopkins talks about a difference maker who tested over 50 different ad plans.

Michael: “Wow, 50. That’s a.”

Ayelet: “Lot. Talk about commitment to finding what works. Yeah. Through rigorous testing, they discovered a plan that was so effective it reduced their selling costs by a whopping 75%.”

Michael: That’s incredible.

Ayelet: That’s the kind of impact data driven decision making can have.

Michael: “It makes you wonder how much money is wasted on marketing campaigns today, because people aren’t testing rigorously enough, right?”

Ayelet: Crazy.

Michael: What are some key variables that you think our listener could be testing in their own marketing?

Ayelet: There are so many possibilities depending on the platform and the goal.

Michael: Of course.

Ayelet: “But some fundamentals include headlines, images, calls to action. Yeah, even the offer itself. Got it. Imagine testing different headlines to see which one grabs the most attention, right? We’re experimenting with different visuals to find the ones that resonate best with your target audience.”

Michael: Just like we’re taking those principles from a century ago and applying them to the digital age.

Ayelet: Absolutely.

Michael: We see this all the time with AB testing online. It’s a direct descendant of those early test campaigns Hopkins championed.

Ayelet: “Exactly. And it’s not just about digital, right? Those mail order tactics are still relevant for anyone creating content. Okay? Hopkins stressed. Strong headlines. Yeah, using small type efficiently. Right. Avoiding wasted space, telling a complete story. All of this is valuable whether you’re writing an email or designing a website or even crafting a social media post.”

Michael: “It’s about making every word and every visual element work hard for you. It’s interesting to think about how those principles transcend the medium. Yeah, what makes us stop scrolling on social media? It’s often a strong headline paired with an eye catching image, right? And what makes us read an entire email? A compelling subject line and a clear, concise message?”

Ayelet: “Precisely. Those principles are timeless because they tap into basic human psychology, right? People are bombarded with messages, for sure. So clarity and persuasion are crucial. Yeah. Hopkins understood this back in 1923, way.”

Michael: Ahead of his time.

Ayelet: “And it’s even more relevant today. But beyond tactics. Okay, he emphasized building a distinctive brand personality.”

Michael: “Okay, so it’s not just about what you say, it’s about who you are as a brand.”

Ayelet: “He cautioned against negative advertising. It might be tempting to tear down the competition. Yeah, but Hopkins bMichael:eved in focusing on the positive aspects of your brand and product. It’s about building your own reputation, not resorting to negativity.”

Michael: “That resonates so much in today’s world, where consumers are increasingly savvy and skeptical of marketing.”

Ayelet: For sure.

Michael: Authenticity is key.

Ayelet: “He even delved into the art of letter writing. Okay, which might seem a bit outdated, right? But the principles apply to any form of communication, right? Grabbing attention with the strong headline, offering valuable information, making a personal connection. These are essential whether you’re sending a sales email okay, writing a blog post, or even just texting a friend.”

Michael: “It all boils down to effective communication. Understanding your audience, crafting a clear message and dMichael:vering it in a way that resonates.”

Ayelet: I agree.

Michael: It’s fascinating to see how a book written almost a century ago can still be so relevant to our daily lives.

Ayelet: And there’s more to uncover.

Michael: “Oh, there is okay.”

Ayelet: “Next, we’ll explore some of Hopkins specific advice on branding, distribution, and ultimately, what it means to approach advertising with a scientific mindset. Welcome back to our deep dive on scientific advertising. We’ve gone through a lot from the psychology of persuasion to the importance of testing, but there’s still one crucial piece. Oh, really?”

Michael: “Branding. Branding, right?”

Ayelet: “It’s not just about getting people to buy once, right? It’s about building a lasting brand that people trust and remember. Yeah.”

Michael: For sure.

Ayelet: “And Hopkins dedicates a whole chapter to the power of a strong brand name. Okay. He stresses the importance of choosing a name that tells a story. Okay. Clearly conveys the product’s benefits more instantly, captures the essence of what you offer.”

Michael: “Like, what kind of examples does he give?”

Ayelet: “He uses shredded wheat and Cream of Wheat. Okay, they’re simple, straightforward, and they immediately tell you what the product is.”

Michael: Yeah. They do.

Ayelet: Exactly. Yeah.

Michael: Makes sense.

Ayelet: “Those names are memorable, easy to understand and create a strong association with the product. Right. It’s like the name itself becomes a mini advertisement.”

Michael: It does? Yeah.

Ayelet: He cautions against using meaningless coined names or names that are too difficult to remember.

Michael: “You know, it makes you think about all those brands with obscure names that just don’t stick in your mind.”

Ayelet: Right. And he also warns against names that are too generic or easily imitated. Okay. You want a name that stands out that’s unique to your brand and that can be legally protected. Right. But a great name is just the starting point. Okay. Hopkins also delves into the challenges of getting distribution.

Michael: Distribution.

Ayelet: Which is something many new businesses struggle with.

Michael: Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Ayelet: “You know, it’s one thing to have a great product, right? And a compelling brand. Yeah. But if people can’t find it, it’s pointless. It’s all for nothing.”

Michael: Totally.

Ayelet: “And he highlights several strategies for securing distribution, from starting with local advertising to leveraging the power of sampling.”

Michael: Make sense?

Ayelet: He even suggests using free product offers to incentivize dealers to stock the product.

Michael: It’s amazing how creative and strategic those early advertisers had to be. I know.

Ayelet: Right?

Michael: “I mean, they couldn’t just rely on social media or digital platforms to reach their audience.”

Ayelet: They had to think outside the box.

Michael: They did.

Ayelet: “But throughout the book, the core message remains consistent. It.”

Michael: Okay. And what’s that?

Ayelet: Think like a salesperson.

Michael: Okay.

Ayelet: Focus on the customer’s needs. Test your approaches. Yeah. And always strive for measurable results.

Michael: It’s all coming.

Ayelet: Together now right. It’s all connected.

Michael: So what does this all mean for our listener. How can they apply these principles of scientific advertising in today’s world?

Ayelet: In a world saturated with advertising? How do you cut through the noise and connect with your target audience?

Michael: Right. It’s tough out there.

Ayelet: “That’s the question Hopkins helps us answer. He provides a framework for approaching advertising with clarity, strategy, and a deep understanding of human psychology.”

Michael: We need.

Ayelet: “That. And while the tactics might have evolved, the principles are timeless.”

Michael: “Absolutely. I think it’s about thinking critically, questioning assumptions, and constantly testing and refining our approach.”

Ayelet: Exactly.

Michael: “It’s about remembering that effective advertising is about offering genuine value, building relationships and focusing on the customer’s needs.”

Ayelet: “If you want to dive deeper, yeah, I highly recommend seeking out the source material.”

Michael: The book.

Ayelet: Hopkins’s book is a treasure trove of insights that can challenge your thinking.

Michael: Oh for sure.

Ayelet: And inspire you to approach marketing in a whole new way.

Michael: “Well, who knows, maybe this deep dive has sparked your own journey of exploration into the world of marketing, business, and psychology. That’ll be awesome. Keep those minds curious. Keep asking questions, and keep diving deep into the knowledge that matters. Until next time.”

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